• Hi Guest
    Please take 5 minutes to complete this short survey about your experience on minr and how we can improve the server. Results will be published in the near future.
    Please feel free to share this link.
    Link to Survey

Shortcut definitions and discussion

rickyboy320

Penguin Master
Op
Board
Nov 18, 2013
1,948
1,161
Preferably any shortcuts you find should (at least) be reported to the map creator, so that the creator can decide if the skip should stay.
Any large skips that undermine difficulty should get fixed and definitely reported.

Let us define three classes of 'shortcuts':
  • Accepted shortcuts
  • Bad shortcuts
  • Time improving adjustments
Accepted shortcuts
Accepted shortcuts are those that while improving time, the jump itself does not take away difficulty. For example, replacing a small amount 2-block jumps with a neo does not reduce difficulty. Shortcuts that are more risky and harder than the intended path are fine too (as long as the shortcut correctly balances out).
A few such examples are the shortcut in candyland, where it is possible to skip from tree to those tower thingies by doing a rather hard momentum nearly pixel perfect jump with a full reset on fail, while the default path introduces a few (simple) ladder jumps and 2 block jumps, most of which are rather easy. In this case the shortcut is harder than the main path and is allowed. (But it may be better to have at least reported this one because difficulty is a little bit subjective).

Another example would be another very specific jump in skylands, where it is possible to do a 4-block diagonal jump (quite a hard one to pull off) from trees to the floating blocks segment. Again, if you fall you have to do the portion beforehand over, while the intended path has you go through a safe-room of mediocre jumps.
This saves a considerable amount of time, but does not reduce difficulty because it is 1) hard to pull off and 2) sets you back quite a lot if failed.

Another example is a skip in queen's nest where it is possible to skip the underground path by doing a one+air neup to the square. This was originally a one+air neo, but to balance out the main path I made it a neup.
The main path has a guess segment, rewards you with a checkpoint and has some 3+1 jumps, while the neo makes you skip this checkpoint (with no way to set it anyways), has a full reset on fail and is in itself a very hard jump.

It would probably be better if these type of jumps are reported and then balanced so that the main path is easier than the shortcut, because difficulty is more or less subjective, and so that the creator (if still around) can jump in to potentially fix if the shortcut is undesired.

And of course simple shortcuts such as skipping two 2-block jumps by doing a diagonal 3-block jump, or any of those small time-savers should be fine.


Bad shortcuts
Bad shortcuts are those that do in fact reduce difficulty. Examples are the (now patched) skip in aqueous that allowed you to skip from the beginning-lava-part to the glowstone-lava-part, by doing a semi-hard jump through the lava. While the jump is not easy, and on failure you get fully reset, it's the first segment of the map, meaning the reset does not cause any problems, since the player can more or less just attempt the jump again and again. It does skip more than half of the map, very much outscaling this one jump through the lava.
Not only that, but the jump had clear attempts of patching in place, which should have been an indicator that this jump is not wanted by the creator (or by those that tried to patch the shortcut previously).
This shortcut should have definitely been reported.

Another example are the (also now patched) shortcuts in breaking free, that allowed the player to climb on top of the walls, allowing skips to the end from one of the first outside areas. While the skip is not exactly easy to find, it is still a considerable skip that should be (and has been) reported, since finding and executing the skip does not outweigh the default path (at all).

The skip reported in this thread is also a 'bad shortcut', since it trades a full maze and a (semi-easy and safe) parkour section for one relatively easy jump. While the jump is riskier than the default path, it does not outweigh the default path and therefore has been fixed.

Time improving adjustments

Time improving adjustments are alterations of your run / presetting the map so that you can improve your time by 'preparing' a map.
Examples are jumping down in pandemonium to start your time from a different position, beating tulip and resetting your time by killing yourself, and presetting maps like blockparty / vares sert.

Time improving adjustments such as pandemonium and halls of infinity are mostly fine, but if you find these, preferably you at least inform the creator of the map so they can decide if they want to keep it or not.

The fact that a map can be preset often means that the map is inherently broken due to the fact that this means that when a player quits halfway, an other player could steal progress, effectively reducing difficulty of the map.
(Block Party and Tulip among Tulip are examples of this, and should have been fixed a while ago). These should always be reported.

Another thing that seems to happen sometimes (mostly in co-op maps) are getting a full team on seperate puzzles so that players can run through the puzzles for a rather quick time. While it is technically allowed by the rules (it does not make use of shortcuts, glitches, and the players you're doing it with and the speedrunner have both beaten the map, and can therefore share answers/run through it), I feel it undermines the maps times and statistics, and those unable to set up a team (such as those in unfortunate timezones with a small amount of players online at all times), would be unable to best your time at all. Therefore I prefer if this is not done at all, and any such maps (mostly puzzles) are played as they're supposed to be.


With global points being a thing now, I hope we can at least crack down on these major points.
If a shortcut is reported, please comment whether your time (if you're one of the top times) used the shortcut, so that we can more accurately remove times and keep it fair for everyone. Only your time will be removed, your completions will stay where they are (thus you will keep your ffa points).

TL;DR
Finding quicker paths is fun and we don't want to take that away, but some of these are unfair compared to the intended path, being much easier, which are the shortcuts that should be reported. Presetting maps displays an inherent flaw in the maps' design, and should be reported so that we can find a solution (these are often harder to fix and can therefore take a longer while until they're fixed).

(Disclaimer: this list may not be complete and does not fully represent the views of staff, but mainly my own - that's why this thread is mainly a discussion as well, so that we can define what shortcuts should be accepted and which ones should be patched as a community).
 

Hex

Board Man
Op
Board
Jul 26, 2016
610
483
When I found the Aqueous skip yeroc was online, and I showed him immediately, so in fact it was reported, though not with a thread. There have been some rather nasty skips that I have found and that others have found, and large skips are bad for nap balance, but that doesn't change the fact that finding and exploiting skips is SUPER fun. No feeling has ever been more gratifying than when I with the help of Zombie whittled down the Wretched Earth time from 20 minutes to 4. Of course they should be patched, but a huge amount of gratification comes from finding unintended routes through maps. On the topic of mp runs of normal maps, it does feel non-gratifying to other people who can't hope to achieve a time as high as a pair or in the worst cases a group of people. The Jko-op and brt times come to mind (I might be responsible for one of those) though those maps are intrinsically mp so I don't know how much I can object. One of the other bad offenders is Torsion, where you can shave 25% of the time off the run with s second player. This necessity for speedrunning it has actually led to some foul play in the map before. But in my mind this sort of assistance falls in the same category as showing someone a ripe to a maze they've completed but forgotten. People shouldn't be carrying others to good times, but that doesn't mean they won't. How would we even so people from doing that? People are allowed to help each other, but it starts to feel unfair when helping others starts to disadvantage other people, which is an issue leaderboards cause.

The last thing I can think of is a rather large issue regarding ops. Ops are immune to NCP. NCP lags people back while spamming space in tight corridors. So therefore I think that ops intrinsically have an advantage, though i don't know this for certain (I can't test it lol). This kinda sucks for the rest of us, and even though it has been shown that any time can be beaten, it still means most of us are starting at a disadvantage.
Ysy discussion \o/
 

henniboy321

Chicken eater
Mod
Nov 2, 2013
450
282
Also to any ops, if you do fix a skip/bug in a map whose creator is not active anymore, please do consult some people to know the correct fix. I'm currently thinking to the creeper temple incident when I was playing hexa with rick.
Though I understand you're under some pressure to fix it immediatly, do it, and then ask others later?
 

rickyboy320

Penguin Master
Op
Board
Nov 18, 2013
1,948
1,161
The last thing I can think of is a rather large issue regarding ops. Ops are immune to NCP. NCP lags people back while spamming space in tight corridors. So therefore I think that ops intrinsically have an advantage, though i don't know this for certain (I can't test it lol). This kinda sucks for the rest of us, and even though it has been shown that any time can be beaten, it still means most of us are starting at a disadvantage.
You're right that this has impact (especially on mazes such as old level 1), I'm still thinking of solutions for NCP (since it's one of the main causes of 'lagbacks' which isn't desired on a parkour server), but sadly haven't found anything yet as for short-term solutions.
 

rickyboy320

Penguin Master
Op
Board
Nov 18, 2013
1,948
1,161
We'll use this subforum for reporting + patching shortcuts in the future.
If times are removed, players should be notified here as well.
 
Top