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Should maps made pre-sprint have sprint today?

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_Trains_

off the rails!!
Greenie
Jul 26, 2019
319
479
A quick idea/suggestion since this is a topic talked about as of recent. Very open thread for debate so feel free to let your opinions flow.

With maps like aquarium most notably getting buffed with no sprint, this begs the question on whether all maps made pre-sprint should not have sprint to retain the original feel and play style that the map creator intended. For example, Drah wanted mob parkour not to have sprint to reflect the difficulty of the map when it originally came out. This happened again when lava parkour got rereleased a few months ago. With countless new maps in every category coming out today, it would be an interesting idea for old maps like f&I maze, Skytop, ol2, wolly (etc) to all be given the buff they were built with as a change of pace from the rest of ffa's maps. What do you think?
 

Dumbmutt

Stargazer
Greenie
Jul 30, 2018
415
617
I personally disagree with this.
Though yes it's nostalgic and such, but doing this will completely rotate the difficulty scale and remove several easier maps from our current map base. I think having a challenge or some other way to have this would be far better than reverting these maps back to their original state. (Though this is mainly for PARKOUR.)
Example:
Mineco would be a high orange or low red because of this.
Having this for mazes actually isn't that bad of an idea.
We've seen this type of concept work with MAZES in the past such as Aquarium. I don't really see a major problem in restoring mazes and stuff like this but for the sake of the server I heavily disagree with parkour based maps being returned to nosprint.

Edit: If a map creator wants this or decides this (Such as Drahmee there is not much of an issue or debate there.) I believe asking map creators for this would be far better than just taking initiative and doing it ourselves.
 

Zatharel

Другар
Op
Board
Nov 5, 2013
2,033
1,651
In the case of Skytop and F&I and other mazes this is pretty irrelevant imo considering the only change would be just walking slower.

In my opinion Aquarium was only a special case because you could use the swim mechanics to get from one breathing spot to another faster (and thus, you don't need to be careful where you go).
 

_Trains_

off the rails!!
Greenie
Jul 26, 2019
319
479
I personally disagree with this.
Though yes it's nostalgic and such, but doing this will completely rotate the difficulty scale and remove several easier maps from our current map base. I think having a challenge or some other way to have this would be far better than reverting these maps back to their original state. (Though this is mainly for PARKOUR.)
Example:
Mineco would be a high orange or low red because of this.
Having this for mazes actually isn't that bad of an idea.
We've seen this type of concept work with MAZES in the past such as Aquarium. I don't really see a major problem in restoring mazes and stuff like this but for the sake of the server I heavily disagree with parkour based maps being returned to nosprint.

Edit: If a map creator wants this or decides this (Such as Drahmee there is not much of an issue or debate there.) I believe asking map creators for this would be far better than just taking initiative and doing it ourselves.
The only thing I would disagree with here is that, with such an influx of white maps being produced, there is not as much reason to keep ol2 and mineco friendly for newer users; they have an abundance of maps they could play instead. Perhaps if there was a very small amount of white maps and those two maps were the backbone of helping newer players understand parkour, but that is not the case.
 

Big

Bird Enthusiast
Greenie
Mar 2, 2019
771
635
Personally, the only map that I would be fine with changing to no sprint is Old Level 2. I personally don’t believe this map should be recommended for beginners, since it surely gives some a bad first impression of the server as a whole due to its lackluster aesthetics. If this was made into a no-sprint like Mob Parkour, it would probably become a green/yellow map, and thus become less enticing to newer players.
 

rickyboy320

Administrator
Op
Nov 18, 2013
2,249
1,748
You guys are wholly overestimating the difficulty. Mineco would not become orange/red, the jumps remain simple and the map is short. Aj beat old level 2 (without sprint) in VR. There are so few jumps that it would be blue, green at most.
 

Big

Bird Enthusiast
Greenie
Mar 2, 2019
771
635
You guys are wholly overestimating the difficulty. Mineco would not become orange/red, the jumps remain simple and the map is short. Aj beat old level 2 (without sprint) in VR. There are so few jumps that it would be blue, green at most.
For someone who has attempted mineco no sprint, that map is definitely up there with the oranges.
 

rickyboy320

Administrator
Op
Nov 18, 2013
2,249
1,748
That implies I haven't played mineco without sprint. I have. Where does that difficulty come from? The stretches are short, there are no awkward jumps (minus one or two), there is constant failsafing, and there's only a few substages. It's more difficult than with sprint, but it's not orange.

EDIT:
I played through mineco again just now to verify my claims. The jumps are harder than I remember (quite a few 2+1s). The hardest stage is probably the slab stage, and the tnt stage just holds a few 'long jumps'. Once you learn the momentum trick that's not too bad.

Overall I'd estimate it somewhere into yellow, but I stand by my claim that high orange / low red is overestimated. And old level 2 has way less long jumps, or they're covered by ladders, So it's definitely easier than mineco, I still call it blue/green at best


Anyways that was derailed the thread - yes, the difficulty will differ, but I agree with _Trains_ in that the increase of difficulty of a few maps doesn't really break the distribution of difficulty in a significant manner.

Mineco and old level 2 are not *that* significantly affected by sprinting being taken away, in general, you still take the same path, and all weird sprint shortcuts were patched, except for mineco where you don't have to take the whole slab route. So I'm kind of neutral here, adding the non-sprint mechanic makes them different and interesting, but also more obnoxious.
 
Last edited:

Alphaesia

Maze Connoisseur
Op
Apr 21, 2014
1,557
847
Unless there's a mechanical reason for it, we shouldn't be limiting maps to no sprint, as it doesn't feel very nice to control.
 

Dumbmutt

Stargazer
Greenie
Jul 30, 2018
415
617
That implies I haven't played mineco without sprint. I have. Where does that difficulty come from? The stretches are short, there are no awkward jumps (minus one or two), there is constant failsafing, and there's only a few substages. It's more difficult than with sprint, but it's not orange.

EDIT:
I played through mineco again just now to verify my claims. The jumps are harder than I remember (quite a few 2+1s). The hardest stage is probably the slab stage, and the tnt stage just holds a few 'long jumps'. Once you learn the momentum trick that's not too bad.

Overall I'd estimate it somewhere into yellow, but I stand by my claim that high orange / low red is overestimated. And old level 2 has way less long jumps, or they're covered by ladders, So it's definitely easier than mineco, I still call it blue/green at best


Anyways that was derailed the thread - yes, the difficulty will differ, but I agree with _Trains_ in that the increase of difficulty of a few maps doesn't really break the distribution of difficulty in a significant manner.

Mineco and old level 2 are not *that* significantly affected by sprinting being taken away, in general, you still take the same path, and all weird sprint shortcuts were patched, except for mineco where you don't have to take the whole slab route. So I'm kind of neutral here, adding the non-sprint mechanic makes them different and interesting, but also more obnoxious.
You are forgetting difficulty can be subjective.
Edit: without sprint (If you don't have some type of saturation somehow) you will be unable to regenerate which will give you a limited amount of attempts before you die. The map without sprint isn't "orange" but I believe that it's far harder due to the fact you have limited attempts. (This is a big factor in Mineco in the white walkers challenge.)
 
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rebplane

Boring Turtle
Op
Jan 5, 2014
533
382
You are forgetting difficulty can be subjective.
Edit: without sprint (If you don't have some type of saturation somehow) you will be unable to regenerate which will give you a limited amount of attempts before you die. The map without sprint isn't "orange" but I believe that it's far harder due to the fact you have limited attempts. (This is a big factor in Mineco in the white walkers challenge.)
That's only for white walkers, you can set it up to allow regen (e.g. retrograde).
 

Pieceofcheese87

always in a Gouda mood
Op
Oct 28, 2013
1,446
1,169
Mineco is a staple easy map. Seeing it changed to be no-sprint would be... weird. I think I agree with pickles that we should only do it if the creator requests for it to be done. In aquarium's case, I did reach out to Roman prior to the change (granted, it was changed before he could respond to me, but he did agree that the change would be good.)
 
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