List of Things and Why

[Zombie]

Recently i made a rant about change, and after a discussion i'm going to make a legitamate list of things that could use something more, as well as some short reasons. Please note, i want the server to be the best it can, and im not doing this based off of personal disagreement with the server. I love minr.
List:
>Spawn: We have had the same spawn-style for a very long time, not that i hate tradition, but somehting new might do us good.
>Ranks: Being a topic we have discused, i am always scared to bring it back up. In shortm greens hit a glass ceiling as they want to become somehting more, but can't usless they get mod. Having a Green+, that would be used as a accomplishment after green. The Path would be an HC made ofr greens, and the prize would be infinite access to common materials like: cobble, stone, wood, and dirt. This would not only gives greens something more to do, but also let green+ people make maps with more eas, a pretty good reward imo.
>Rules: While we added the FAQ book, it really isn't somehting new or improved, its a book with the exact same things as the wall (which we have had for a long time) again Tradition is Tradition, but maybe have it so it reads you the rules VIA Scripts while you walk to FFA or FFA+. People are truely too lazy to read 2 walls of rules and FAQ's these days.
>Maps: Maybe a new grading system in place? Again, tradition is just that, but maybe eiter something less, or something more, Also I heard some people talk about how it would be nice for EVEYRONE to review maps after publication and not just greens+.
>AirShip: No i don't want Airship gone, that thing is too traditional to take away, but make something new to display maps, it's confusing for new players, i see it all the time.
>FFA+: Improve the room. It is classic and tradition, but add somehting cool to it.
>Have a welcome messege for each new player: This makes all new players feel nice.
>Minigames: Either make more, or decide what we are going to do with those projects.
>Blues: Why can't they freely roam the survival world, except with no building? I mean i see a lot of blues ask and no harm would be done.
>Plugins: If not more ranks, put a pluggin in that will make greens enjoy survival more then they do, like mcmmo (althought u guys seem to hate that pluggin), or sortals and such.
>Build team: Go to my other thread

Please note:
I love minr, and i care about it, I made this to suggest changes and suggest only, not all of these will be done, but the point is to give ideas and topics that we can change our server to so that it can become better for others as well as ouselves.

Thank you for your time.
-Zombie

 

[Zatharel]

We could use a new spawn, but I'm personally eager to see kadd's atlantis spawn put in and see how it functions as a spawn before making any drastic changes.

"Green HC" has been discussed and can theoretically be implemented in the challenges feature, whenever we implement that. Until then, we'll probably have the achievement system first, so that should be enough of a goal for at least some time.

I'm fine with scripting the rules on blocks, but if someone isn't going to bother reading just a few signs I doubt they'll read a few lines in their chatbar.

Currently the rating system *should* be fine. I'm not sure we even have enough wool colors that are aesthetically pleasing for 1-10, and any reduction of the current system would just confuse. I'm very very very much against whities/blues being able to review maps. They've (usually) had no experience in making them so I see no reason why they should be able to review them. Some of you may not remember, but opening the board to greens was horrible when it was still at the begging . Maps that consisted of just blocks above a lava pool were praised as FFA+ maps by some greens, and this really isn't the type of thing we want.

The new /checkpoint join *might* fix the issue with how you get to maps. There are probably more simple ways we can do that but having a command to join a map is a good enough start.

I'm fine with the current FFA+ room. If you're referring to the fact that there's little space, there's a lot more built under it that you don't know about.

I like this. I'm not sure why we don't have a welcome message. It doesn't spam the server that much (unless we have joins every 10 seconds, which, we never do). This could be nice.

Eh, I don't like specializing in minigames as well. Everyone does that these days and I don't see a really good reason why we should follow their example.

Chinatown/the nether subway used to be a solution to this. It was removed, not sure why as it was before my time. Perhaps bringing these two things back will fix it.

Again, achievement system. I don't know if anyone else is hyped for that, but I am. Let's see how that works out first.

That was needlessly long...

 

[skyerzz]

Have a welcome messege for each new player: This makes all new players feel nice.

I like this. I'm not sure why we don't have a welcome message. It doesn't spam the server that much (unless we have joins every 10 seconds, which, we never do). This could be nice.

Something like "Playername joined for the first time! Welcome!"?

 

[rmanimal]

1. Topic of spawns:
It sounds like atlantis spawn will at some point be complete, but might take awhile for it to be done
2. Topic of "Green+"
Firstly, if a player's only addon is a "+" to their name, they wouldn't exactly feel rewarded. The second half of the issue is the practicality. The more ranks on a server = more confusion. An entire nother HC is basically the system they went through to GET green in the first place, which also removes a huge chunkload from the current maps in FFA(+). Thirdly, there's not much point giving the "reward" as 4 countably infinite items that exist in minecraft currently. They wouldn't be too useful, and I have questions myself if we should give them infinite resources.
3. Topic of FAQ
Personally, I agree. Nothing gets more annoying when the blues you meet actually haven't read the FAQ. The issue with setting it on blocks is how spammed your chat gets every time you change maps. Personally FAQ quiz should be a requirement, not just a red map equivalent.
4. Topic of Maps
Similarly to Zath's point, the map review system is much like a voting system: you need a requirement to have a say within it. We can't just let new players review maps: the majority have no idea how the map making system and standards are in Minr. Admins don't need to read 10 books that give little depth into maps other than playability.
5. Topic of Airship
Something to take into account here is these people aren't reading the crypt messages in a pyramid. We have a 4x4 space which explains mostly how the maps work. Much like the FAQ: it's that players don't bother to look at the rules and confuse themselves.
6. Topic of FFA+
I'm not sure what exactly you could add here without altering the room.
7. Topic of welcome message
Agreed 100%
8. Topic of mini-games
The greens+ feel more rewarded when making maps than making games, thus why we have so few additions to the minigames. How long ago was Connect 4 made?
9. Topic of free roam
Personally, when someone has 630+ points they don't want people with 20 points to be able to see mostly everything on the server. The other part of this issue would be the ease of breaking into maps and getting points.
10. Topic of McMMO
Not a bad idea, but there's probably something I don't know about that makes the admins fussy about it.
11. Topic of change in general
Remember, to change anything the best way to do it is to go small/gradual. I've seen much better treatment with whites/blues ever since the rankism post from a few months ago, which is a good example of gradual change. Who knows, we might implement some of these things, but for the matters of right now our main focus is in enjoyment of players, not luxury with them.

 

[Zatharel]

Something like "Playername joined for the first time! Welcome!"?

Pretty much yeah.

 

[skyerzz]

Pretty much yeah.

Added. Also made it so if you log in, it displays the color of your rank as name. For instance

rmanimal Joined!

(let me know if you dont want this, its easy to disable again. There WILL be a bypass for ops.)

 

[Chillers]

>Spawn: We have had the same spawn-style for a very long time, not that i hate tradition, but somehting new might do us good.

We already have a new spawn in the process of being built.

>Ranks: Being a topic we have discused, i am always scared to bring it back up. In shortm greens hit a glass ceiling as they want to become somehting more, but can't usless they get mod. Having a Green+, that would be used as a accomplishment after green. The Path would be an HC made ofr greens, and the prize would be infinite access to common materials like: cobble, stone, wood, and dirt. This would not only gives greens something more to do, but also let green+ people make maps with more eas, a pretty good reward imo.

Again this is creating a separate group within greens when greens are supposed to be an equal rank. I don't agree with infinite materials. If anything this will make the server more boring for players who have everything in the long run.

>Rules: While we added the FAQ book, it really isn't somehting new or improved, its a book with the exact same things as the wall (which we have had for a long time) again Tradition is Tradition, but maybe have it so it reads you the rules VIA Scripts while you walk to FFA or FFA+. People are truely too lazy to read 2 walls of rules and FAQ's these days.

FAQ book is a new feature, we have discussed time and time again how to implement the rules, at the end of the day we can't force players to read them.

>Maps: Maybe a new grading system in place? Again, tradition is just that, but maybe eiter something less, or something more, Also I heard some people talk about how it would be nice for EVEYRONE to review maps after publication and not just greens+.

This is taking away privileges for earning green this contradicts the reason of adding green+. Perhaps it's doable this can be discussed futher.

>AirShip: No i don't want Airship gone, that thing is too traditional to take away, but make something new to display maps, it's confusing for new players, i see it all the time.

Changing the airship would be a nightmare, all those signs would have to be re-written. Perhaps sky and ricky will figure out a way of making a change like this easier in their plugin.

>FFA+: Improve the room. It is classic and tradition, but add somehting cool to it.

Again this involves changing the signs, it's a lot of work.

>Have a welcome messege for each new player: This makes all new players feel nice.

We used to have a welcome message not sure what happened to it.

>Minigames: Either make more, or decide what we are going to do with those projects.

A lot of mini games require additional plugins to work, this with drain the server resources.

>Blues: Why can't they freely roam the survival world, except with no building? I mean i see a lot of blues ask and no harm would be done.

I do believe blues were once allowed to do this. Also as soon as they completed HC they were allowed to wonder freely until logs were reviewed. I don't have a problem with this.

>Plugins: If not more ranks, put a pluggin in that will make greens enjoy survival more then they do, like mcmmo (althought u guys seem to hate that pluggin), or sortals and such.

Again, unnecessary drain of server resources. We are running a 5 year old map, it's literally huge, last i heard it was 8gb+ and that was a year ago, that along with players dotted all over and a number of plugins is very resource intensive we are lucky the server runs smooth.

>Build team: Go to my other thread

I don't mind the idea of a build team, but this should be greens only, builders can be given temporary privilages. If i wanted a certain build to be done i'd just pay some professionals to do it.

 

[Zombie]

@Chillers
It seems to me that you like to see the bad side of all ideas, which is fine, but try to see what good something could bring. Looking for the good first is always good. YOu are still forgetting the reason why i posted this is only to make the server better, and remember that this is in the eyes of a green, not an admin. Why do you think Country's decide to vote for what they want? Because it's what they want, not what the leaders want. You're putting personal opinion into this all and refuse to see that it would improve, and while there are setbacks, why would yout look at those first?

For example, you don't truley know what a new rank would do, becuase we don't have one, yes it splits apart the "greens" but as you said, you can't speak for the people of the server. And the prize is just a suggestion, i mean we could get creative with it. I bet you many greens would like infinite amounts of regular items. You really can't judge that because you're and admin, not a green. And while you were a green at one time, i bet you that if you could go back, you would want that, and if not then good for you.

A new Airship would be hard indeed, yet the toughness of a task only increases it's probablity of success.

None of us truley know what would happen, reactions and all, all we can do is look at the ups and the downs, but I've noticed, that if an idea is not 110% success rate gaurenteed, it is rejected.

We could always test things you know, if it doesnt work, get rid of it. I don't dee any problem in that. Better yet, create a community vote.

Like I said, you and I have no idea what would really be the (good or bad) consequeces of any of these tasks. Which is why we should at least test some of these ideas. What if they grow our popularity?

If they don't then throw it away.

Don't judge things unless you know all sides of an argument.

Thanks!
-Zombie

 

[Chillers]

@Chillers
It seems to me that you like to see the bad side of all ideas, which is fine, but try to see what good something could bring. Looking for the good first is always good. YOu are still forgetting the reason why i posted this is only to make the server better, and remember that this is in the eyes of a green, not an admin. Why do you think Country's decide to vote for what they want? Because it's what they want, not what the leaders want. You're putting personal opinion into this all and refuse to see that it would improve, and while there are setbacks, why would yout look at those first?

For example, you don't truley know what a new rank would do, becuase we don't have one, yes it splits apart the "greens" but as you said, you can't speak for the people of the server.

A new Airship would be hard indeed, yet the toughness of a task only increases it's probablity of success.

None of us truley know what would happen, reactions and all, all we can do is look at the ups and the downs, but I've noticed, that if an idea is not 110% success rate gaurenteed, it is rejected.

We could always test things you know, if it doesnt work, get rid of it. I don't dee any problem in that. Better yet, create a community vote.

Like I said, you and I have no idea what would really be the (good or bad) consequeces of any of these tasks. Which is why we should at least test some of these ideas. What if they grow our popularity?

If they don't then throw it away.

Don't judge things unless you know all sides of an argument.

Thanks!
-Zombie

You are failing to see that this is your own persistent opinion. The fact that ops and mods have previously discussed it and made the decision as a group for it to be brought back up again is simple in the fact that you can't accept no for an answer. This is not a country, it's a server paid for out of an owners pocket, it's a minecraft server we have players and a community we take suggestions into opinion and a decision is made.

I think i know better than most what a new rank would bring to the server as i've been around since before the blue rank was even introduced. Dividing green players is a terrible idea. However i think new accomplishments will introduce new challenges.

If you want true answers make a poll in this thread, see how they fair.

 

[henniboy321]

I am really glad you care about the future of the server and try to improve what we already have but you seem a bit impulsive on these things.

It seems to me that you like to see the bad side of all ideas, which is fine, but try to see what good something could bring. Looking for the good first is always good.

You are right, looking for the good at first is a good thing, but what Chillers and possibly others have said here is not at first sight anymore. Since you already pointed out the good things, someone has to point out the bad things so we can make a better decision.

that this is in the eyes of a green, not an admin.

The thing is you don't have to look at this in the eyes of anyone, look at these ideas objective and Chillers (and many others) usually have better feel for this because they have 5 years of experience, not saying that they are never wrong just they are more right than wrong.

but I've noticed, that if an idea is not 110% success rate gaurenteed, it is rejected.

We could always test things you know, if it doesnt work, get rid of it.

Of course an idea has to be rocksolid because otherwise we are gonna get complaints and it's gonna take a lot more time to make it work. And to be quite honest trial and error is one of the worst ways to test if something is good or not.

 

[Zombie]

You are failing to see that this is your own persistent opinion. The fact that ops and mods have previously discussed it and made the decision as a group for it to be brought back up again is simple in the fact that you can't accept no for an answer. This is not a country, it's a server paid for out of an owners pocket, it's a minecraft server we have players and a community we take suggestions into opinion and a decision is made.

I think i know better than most what a new rank would bring to the server as i've been around since before the blue rank was even introduced. Dividing green players is a terrible idea. However i think new accomplishments will introduce new challenges.

If you want true answers make a poll in this thread, see how they fair.

I have an opinion based off facts.

I get these things from other players (Whites,blues and greens) and not my own mind.
If you think i don't see flaws the you're wrong i see many flaws.
"dividing green?" or Making a new group.
This isnt a country, but this is called "Server Politics" For a reason.

And you know what? I quit,,
Not becuase im a 2 year old not getting what i want
but because i dont want to argue with people that don't know whats good for them.
I'm tired so bye

 

[Ajdj]

I don't see it as a bad side, but more of a realistic side of the argument. Take each idea that's proposed here, and put a number of man hours on what needs to be done to make it happen. To put it in perspective, HC is ~150-200 man hours from start of draft to the end of setting up a new systems. Getting the FFA ship reworked (which was done relatively recently, past year?) was 40-50. Creating FFA+ was around 20, with each ballot requiring another 5-7 hours. I'm willing to bet the number of cumulative hours on the checkpoint plugin is over 150 by now as well. Everything takes time that we don't realistically have.

With regards to the build team:

We have so many staff working on their own projects that it becomes costly to try and reign everyone in. For example, i didn't even know the FAQ book was a thing until I saw this thread. We aren't an appdev team, we aren't a building squad, we are a bunch of people who commit many of our free hours into building what we think is a good system. We also have so many people come and go that keeping a consistent team can be difficult.

I feel like a lot of this comes from comparing other servers to MINR, but MINR is not like any other server: We don't have donation money fueling builders or developers like many servers do.

Greens+,-,or whatever appendage you want to throw into the rank isn't happening any time soon. Our focus is our maps and hardcore systems.

So with all of this, I ask the question, what can we (the staff) realistically do? What could we change in the course of 1 day (less than 5 man hours) to fix some of these problems.

A lot of ideas have been thrown around, but the only way things change is through a solution.

The short term solutions I see are
--Refine the FAQ book (Although this is moot if the person never reads the book as others have mentioned)

--Fix the disparity people feel between greens and moderators without giving them a new rank.
Ive thought about this one before, and the ideas that come to mind to fix this are:
-A shuffling block of the week/month that isn't in rpk (tried before, didn't catch on very well, could be rebooted)
-Adding the new blocks after each update for free (like the dyes) to rpk for a certain amount of time (never tried, but am willing to try.)
-Upping the rewards per run on rpk (heavily considering)

--Expanded checkpoint features
(I got nothing, that's been other people's doings)

--Change HC to a less parkour focused version
(Coming soon, expect a thread after FFA+ ballot ends)

I've spent 8+ hours in a class for a lab already, and still have more homework to do, so I'm going back to that.

 

[Chillers]

I feel like a lot of this comes from comparing other servers to MINR, but MINR is not like any other server: We don't have donation money fueling builders or developers like many servers do.

I think that hits the nail on the head, i'm quite happy with minr the way it is, i think most players are. Sure activity is low but again thats because we no longer have a top hit on google search. Our server is different and really that's what makes us special.

 

[Srentiln]

Okay, I have to add in because this REALLY got on my nerves

It seems to me that you like to see the bad side of all ideas, which is fine, but try to see what good something could bring. Looking for the good first is always good. YOu are still forgetting the reason why i posted this is only to make the server better, and remember that this is in the eyes of a green, not an admin. Why do you think Country's decide to vote for what they want? Because it's what they want, not what the leaders want. You're putting personal opinion into this all and refuse to see that it would improve, and while there are setbacks, why would yout look at those first?

Chillers is NOT focusing on admin opinion, the negative side of things, or his own views. He is reiterating the points that you have neglected to think over here. As a member of the community who has done a lot more work to promote and support minr than most others, he has more insight into these topics as they pertain to this server.

For example, you don't truley know what a new rank would do, becuase we don't have one, yes it splits apart the "greens" but as you said, you can't speak for the people of the server. And the prize is just a suggestion, i mean we could get creative with it. I bet you many greens would like infinite amounts of regular items. You really can't judge that because you're and admin, not a green. And while you were a green at one time, i bet you that if you could go back, you would want that, and if not then good for you.

As chillers said, we do know what adding a new rank will do. We saw what happened with the addition of blue. As to the infinite items thing, yes people want that. It is not a good idea. Why? Because it takes away from the experience of the build. There have been numerous times I have personally been asked for free items and I have told the people to do it by hand because they will have that much more of a sense of accomplishment. Each time, I have been thanked in the end for it because they realized that their build meant that much more to them for not having the infinite items at their disposal. That pride in your work leads to much better builds overall.

A new Airship would be hard indeed, yet the toughness of a task only increases it's probablity of success.

None of us truley know what would happen, reactions and all, all we can do is look at the ups and the downs, but I've noticed, that if an idea is not 110% success rate gaurenteed, it is rejected.

We could always test things you know, if it doesnt work, get rid of it. I don't dee any problem in that. Better yet, create a community vote.

Like I said, you and I have no idea what would really be the (good or bad) consequeces of any of these tasks. Which is why we should at least test some of these ideas. What if they grow our popularity?

If they don't then throw it away.

Don't judge things unless you know all sides of an argument.

toughness and success probability have little to no correlation. If you think that of how we approach new ideas, then you have been walking around with blinders on. No idea that has been tried on this server has ever come with more than a 50% chance of success. We only reject the ideas that we have reasonable cause to believe would not be in the best interest of the community.

I have an opinion based off facts.

I get these things from other players (Whites,blues and greens) and not my own mind.
If you think i don't see flaws the you're wrong i see many flaws.
"dividing green?" or Making a new group.
This isnt a country, but this is called "Server Politics" For a reason.

And you know what? I quit,,
Not becuase im a 2 year old not getting what i want
but because i dont want to argue with people that don't know whats good for them.
I'm tired so bye

Any person who would try this hard to push their ideas onto a community because they think that they know better than everyone else what is good for the group is not someone who should be in that group. Does the staff know what's best for minr? No, we don't. We look at what has been tried in the past, what is going on in the community, and what could be done better, and try our best to work out a solution. We involve the rest of the community where we can without having potential security issues.

zero isn't a server where we want to bring in a bunch of players at the expense of the community the way some servers have done. It is a server that took a unique approach to the problem of griefers and has evolved around that idea. Minr as a community is very strong because of that fact.

So let me state this for future reference:

The minr community is a great place where the love of challenge courses has brought people together. New ideas and concepts are always encouraged and considered. If you have an idea and it is rejected, it is because the unique factors of this server make it not viable.[/QUOTE]

 

[Zombie]

@Srentiln
ok i agree

 

[skyerzz]

Again this involves changing the signs, it's a lot of work.

While i am converting all (mapped, notice you, not the checkpoints used for private use) to work with the new system, we will A) need to remove all scriptblocks from the signs, and B) need to change a lot of signs like midway checkpoints, endsigns (to work with the same codes) and hardCore signs. If y'all have an idea of how to improve the airship, its best to put it out there now so we can do that in one sweep with our checkpoint refurbishing.