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Resolved HC Suggestion/Problem

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jagman77

Killer of Very Large Horses
Op
Oct 27, 2013
344
158
I also agree, hc is a ittle too hard, but I dont think the solution is going back to the 7 course system is the best option, Ill post my idea of a layout soon
 

YourDopeness

Active Player
Greenie
Nov 25, 2013
22
-3
HC is a bit too hard, i agree with that. but what i don't understand is why being skilled and dedicated at parkour/puzzle/mazes guarantees that a green will be put the effort in to make good maps. I know that I am sort of experiencing a mine craft burnout so i have been one of the less active newer greens and have not made much progress on any maps, yet i was still able to finish hc. I think there should be a sort of build test where the blue that finished hc get temporary build rights in a small area to build a pk/puzzle/maze and the mods+ can vote if it is good enough. if it is, they are greened.
 

henniboy321

Chicken eater
Mod
Nov 2, 2013
458
286
I think there should be a sort of build test where the blue that finished hc get temporary build rights in a small area to build a pk/puzzle/maze and the mods+ can vote if it is good enough. if it is, they are greened.
Greens don't have to build maps. You can be a green without building a map your entire life and that doesn't make greens who have built 10 maps better than you. So I have to disagree with that.
 

rickyboy320

Penguin Master
Op
Board
Nov 18, 2013
1,991
1,207
No, it's not about making maps. It's about being part of the world. You do not have to make maps. Many have not made a map, but have still influenced the map (zero) greatly. Making some kind of 'test' would be ridiculous, and we will never do that. The reason HC is there, is to test people their dedication, and as you may have felt yourself, after doing something very hard for quite a long time, you do not want to lose that. This way the HC system protects us against griefers. That's the very purpose of HC. For it's purpose, it may be a little too hard right now, as grinding for a few months would achieve the same.

Let's see making maps as a bonus. You are allowed to create everything you like in the oldest map of Minecraft. You can leave your house for more than three years UNPROTECTED, and you'll still find it back in the way you left it. THIS is what we try to achieve using HC, not making maps. People shouldn't be limited to their building skills, or parkour skills, or mazeskills. That is what this thread is about.

In contrast, I'd like to make a suggestion for Construction. We've had many first HC's (or second ones) with a part that supplies no food. I'd like to keep the same feel to Construction, by removing the food supply, and adding a heal pad at x=-237 y=111 z=-3508, in the case it goes into HC. I've had a few players test it, and it's not terribly hard to get there. You should be able to lose a few hearts, sprint quite a lot, and still make it there. After the heal pad, you're pretty much set. This, because I feel construction isn't a very 'hard', or even 'long' map. Pixel parkour, WorldTour, and back then, MobParkour all required a decent amount of tries to get through, and if we allow people to have food in construct, their only 'death' or failure would be falling on the edges. I like that the map is forgiving, but it shouldn't be all too forgiving for it to be in HC.
Note that the food doesn't increase the difficulty of the jumps themselves, it just increases the difficulty of foodpreservation, sprinting at right moments, and trying as much as you can to avoid fall damage.
The jumps in construction aren't too hard themselves, which makes this an ideal solution, as a first HC. The map wouldn't be terribly hard either, but still show people that they've now finally entered the HARD in hardcore. And we will not take lightly on them.


HC should be easier! - Yes, yes it should. But HC is HARD after all. You'll still have to do mazes, parkour and puzzle, but you'll find, that when you have a choice, you can make a fitting one for your needs.

But after all, the slim amount of new greens these days isn't completely blamable onto HC, because the player base these days aren't very high themselves. I hope that you see that you have to EARN green, and not get it given to you. Everyone had a map that they found awfully hard (Big Egyptian, ugh), and as self experienced, you can actually develop the 'skill' of parkouring, I don't think people should be complaining about HC having parkour.

Sidenotes to the 'possible HC plan':

I myself, do not see Pocket Stadium as a good HC map. The redstone in the map has broken quite some times before, and people have some way of keeping the end door open for everyone to pass. Also, it allows for a great possibility to lead other players through, and once they know the code, they won't forget it. We'll find it in the logs, but it's always dissappointing to ban a post-HC blue because he got others through the place. (This is not possible with mazes as easily, as this could be as easy as just messaging the person on skype the answers).
 

rmanimal

Unidentified Quipping Outsider
Op
Board
Jan 19, 2015
549
465
@rmanimal Sra? Pretty sure is not a red... I think you're thinking of Shri Tra Savern, which indeed is a red, but sra I think is an orange. Regardless the mazes and parkours were picked not off the rating they received but the difficulty I saw fit.

End of the world: Confusing parkour map, that a while to find the right path but once its found its not THAT hard to do, plus its the first one after the checkpoint which makes it a bit easier to do.

Tower Parkour: I kept this one because I had it when I was getting green and really REALLY loved the parkour on the map, but I could see it being a bit too hard for HC all the same.

Fungus: While yes it is a bit trolly, it requires you to think outside the box, so perhaps it might actually be better in the puzzle/parkour category, but I put it in the maze because it has a legit maze at the end

Aquarium: I could indeed but this at the end, but that would require me to find a new map for HC2 which TBH I have no clue what that would be. I personally think aquarium isn't that hard, just really long. Then again, I shouldn't be the almighty judge here.
I'll look into switching its placement in the system

Ghidora: It's a FANTASTIC map, but I did not know it was broken, so yea...

Construction: Not that hard of a map, just super duper long :p
<btw this is my first time using quotes>
It's not I have a problem with any of the maps, just the new ones don't seem to fitting (btw Ghidora's Manor is my favourite map)
Now that I know what Sra even is (HC-7 ruins) I believe it should be in HC though
Maybe in your own words I should tell you that I (among others) have said multiple times that only blues have said that, which again I say were attempts to make it easier for themselves, not to make it better, hence why I don't count those as valid arguments.
I know it sounds like I just want it easier, but the first red flag to this should be I stated I wanted it to stay as is, as I said in an earlier post (#44)
Secondly, I've beaten the maps End of the World, Tower parkour, Aquarium, Ghidora's manor and Construction, and the other two I don't see much of an issue in putting them in HC, just I don't find them fitting in Hardcore systems.
Thirdly, this is OUR OPINION, if this was a post about facts, it would be getting to green meant you only had to play on the server for two weeks or get 50+ points.
 

DistinctMadness

Mafia Overseer 2.0
Greenie
Nov 2, 2013
664
262
Updated the list a bit
I switched out pockey stadium with 154 and moved 154 to the end of the maze/puzzle path and made vietmort the required puzzle right before you get to choose

@rmanimal how exactly do those maps not fit? You said they don't but never stated why...
 

CreepaShadowz

Maze Connoisseur
Mod
Apr 21, 2014
1,169
544
Are we going to rotate Sky Parkour out since that is Loop Back?

I never really got a chance to see it.
 

Ajdj

Minr Admin
Op
Oct 28, 2013
979
708
Creeper, all the posts on this thread have been speculation. A lot of people were immediately asking for "Change X" without actually providing any ideas or solutions, so I listed a lot of the things I take into consideration back on the second page for if someone wanted to try and put themselves onto my shoes.

Playing devil's advocate here: If I'm a laggy player and redstone is not registering onto my client, doesn't that mean we should make HC with no puzzles?
-Ultimately, we have to have a balance, as srent said a few posts back.

Although I welcome the high-level discussions about what elements should be considered, we will not change how the server functions. There have been no exceptions to HC in 4.5+ years and we aren't starting now.

I've gone through 5-6 different design phases now, and to answer your question creeper, the current version I'm working on (Still need to talk to yeroc at some point before preparing a final pitch) retires the loop-back.
 

rmanimal

Unidentified Quipping Outsider
Op
Board
Jan 19, 2015
549
465
I agree that we should have a balance between the parkours, puzzles and mazes. To answer Distinct's question, it more likely because they've been in FFAs for many years, and it feels a bit strange to have the HC system change the placement and the maps that go in/out rotation; I feel Distinct's map plan is a great idea, balancing the genres without making it too far off the normal system (as there we quite a few parkours in HC). I also find it an interesting twist to have Aquarium as one of the last two maps (but then again, we don't want people stressing over HC-2 for years).
Overall I like the plan you have Distinct, just fixing up Ghidora's manor and looking at the other player's ideas is all we have left to do...
For now... <Insert evil laugh here>
 

nahfackler

Peon
Aug 8, 2014
484
39
Just to throw my opinion out on the floor (please email me if you would like to contact me)

Hard Core (last tiem I checked) was a pretty good system (World tour, Aquarium, and Viemort)
To be honest with all of you Pixel Parkour was probably the Hardest map in HC when I started and I have seen all the changes until 6 months ago. I think We should keep World Tour and Aquarium since they both are possible without food.
@Freakworld I agree with you Ice was probably the furthest in HC I got and I did love that path, but now that I see it FunkyTown is probably the medium course now.
I have seen tons of changes, but just my opinion, I think we should reintroduce Soarer's door maze

That is my opinion,
nahfackler

Please contact me by emailing JamesonRocks110@gmail.com
When you do email me please state your MC user name so that I don't freak Out!

Thanks!
Mr. Nah
 

TheEagg2112

Active Player
Greenie
Feb 2, 2014
9
16
The main reason of HC being so hard is that even is a grifer decides to grief the server, when he finish's HC he's gona be like "man, all this work just to get banned for grifing, forget it i'll just play normally" in resume making people realise that after all that, grifing is not worth it
 

DistinctMadness

Mafia Overseer 2.0
Greenie
Nov 2, 2013
664
262
The main reason of HC being so hard is that even is a grifer decides to grief the server, when he finish's HC he's gona be like "man, all this work just to get banned for grifing, forget it i'll just play normally" in resume making people realise that after all that, grifing is not worth it
I am aware of that, but the point was that we've made hc far too hard for whats its worth. People who CLEARLY aren't going to grief *cough* TheForgottenUser *cough* cannot and will not ever be green just because the system is too hard
 

TheForgottenUser

Honorary green
Whitey
Nov 3, 2013
584
267
Honestly I don't even think it is that hard. The problem is I'm terrible, and even if 'training' would help me, I don't have multiple hours to spare each day. That's unhealthy.
 

Srentiln

minr op since Nov 2011
Op
Oct 28, 2013
1,954
944
Well, forgot, sometimes it's down toone really lucky attempt like I had
 
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